NÃO PERCA: On ‘Night Thoughts,’ ‘Eternals,’ And Reading His Own Reviews 🍿
It took a dozen years from his debut stand-up special, Kumail Nanjiani: Beta Male on Comedy Central, for Nanjiani’s fans to see him return with his second hour of stand-up. Kumail Nanjiani: Night Thoughts premiered Dec. 19 on Hulu and Disney+.
In between, he and his wife Emily V. Gordon received an Academy Award nomination for their screenplay for The Big Sick (and won Best First Screenplay at the Independent Spirit Awards). On his own, Nanjiani has earned two Emmy nominations (for guest acting in The Twilight Zone reboot for what was then CBS All Access, and for his lead performance in a limited series for Hulu’s Welcome to Chippendales). He also shared in a Screen Actors Guild Award win just last year with the cast of Hulu’s Only Murders in the Building.
Night Thoughts already finds Nanjiani in contention for his first Golden Globe come January for Best Performance in Stand-Up Comedy on Television. His performance catches fans up on how fame has and hasn’t changed him, most strikingly by how the public reacted to his body transformation for Eternals and then for their reaction to the Marvel movie itself. He makes the case for why we all could use therapy, even if we’ll never portray a superhero onscreen. In the wake of all of this, DECIDER caught up with Nanjiani to see whether all of that therapy has translated into better mental and emotional health for him in receiving both validation and criticism from strangers online, and how he’s slowly become more comfortable putting himself out there in bigger and bigger pop-culture franchises.
DECIDER: Congrats on the Golden Globes nomination!
KUMAIL NANJIANI: Listen, I just want people to watch this special. But to me, that’s more important than literally anything. I just am like, you know, I’m very proud of it. I want people to watch it.
Well, it’s a great special. Does this kind of reception make it easier for you to either read the comments or avoid them altogether?
What a good question. No. It doesn’t do anything. I still need to reset it. Because whenever I have something coming out, Emily’s always like, “Remember, you have to disengage, you don’t have to read the comments.” But, you know — I read your review, it was great, thank you so much for writing it — I’m still reading the reviews. I should not be reading them. I find stuff that’s well-reviewed or not well-reviewed. It’s the exact same trap. Like, it’s just caring about whatever the reaction is. It’s the same. It can be good. It can be bad. So the biggest project of my life right now is to divorce my work from the reaction that it gets. It’s very nice when it’s nice. I mean, I’m thrilled that it is, but I also know that the other side of it is very, very powerful. Ideally, I don’t know how people like a thing that I make at all, but I know that that’s impossible because I am the person I am, and we live in the world we live in. But no, I should not be reading it.
Has therapy been able to affect your relationship with media, whether it’s social media or mainstream criticism?
It’s a work-in-progress for sure. What my therapist said to me was what other people think of you is none of your business. And I was like, “Wow, what great words to live by.” I have not fully internalized them. I understand at least now what the goal is. But I’ll be honest. I’ve read reviews the last few days, and certain things that I’ve read, I’m like, this hurts my feelings but it should not, because I know it’s wrong. I know people are allowed to not like my special. That’s not what it was. They said something very specific where I was like, oh, this is completely not what (I said), this is absolutely wrong. And so that did help being like — people engage with things on different levels. When I watch a movie, I don’t look at my phone. A lot of times when people are watching something, they’re doing 100 different other things, and that’s totally fine. Entertainment is different things for different people. It’s very important to me because this is what my life is. But it’s not the same for some people, so some people will watch it and not get out of it everything that I want them to get out of it, and I have to be OK with that.
And if you’re doing that while watching stand-up, then you might miss an important set-up to the punchline.
Yeah. Yeah! Or an expression, or whatever it is. Especially, I’ve found, and I’ve been thinking about this very specifically these days, because people watch specials, but people really watch the clips, right? So I’m looking at the clips, and I’m like, what are the clips I can pull out, and most of my stuff is longer stories, so it does require you to follow along. And I think in the age of TikTok and stuff, jokes have gotten shorter. Is this — I mean, you’re much more of an expert on this than I am — have you noticed that jokes have changed in length since the rise of TikTok? I know the crowd work thing is huge, and that’s fairly new.
I think it’s gotten farther away from jokes and more toward things that are just teasing jokes. In the past couple of years, I’ve seen plenty of specials both for YouTube and for streaming platforms where they’ll start the special with a joke that’s from somewhere in the middle. They’ll start with a clip. They’ll start with a clip and then jump back to the opening credits.
That’s interesting. A lot of movies do that now, streaming movies, where if it’s an action movie, it’ll have an action set-piece from like the middle of the movie that narratively doesn’t really make sense because they need people to get past the first two minutes and then they’ll jump back and you watch them.
Right. They just want to make sure you at least tune in for a couple of minutes because if you start with a generic crowd shot and someone offstage introducing you and then there’s a whole applause break welcoming you. Like you can waste a few minutes just with that.
That’s so true. I’ve made a huge mistake.
But I found like as I’ve been hunting for like clips that are like 40-second-long clips or under a minute, I was like, oh, I don’t really. It’s just not how I write stand-up. It’s not the kind of standup I love. To me, set-up punch has to be so good, to me you have to be (Anthony) Jeselnik-level good for it to sustain interest for me. That level of joke-writing has to be so much higher. To me, writing stories that feel more personal or have some sort of emotional content. That’s the stand-up I want to do, and that’s the stand-up that I like watching.
I suppose you could pick any 30 seconds and have it be so out of context that it confuses people into wanting to know more.
Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. We actually did try that in the trailer for it. Which is, making a trailer for stand-up is a f—ing nightmare because in a movie you’re conveying what the premise is with a stand-up it’s so hard to like you have like a minute and you can’t focus on one joke. It’s so hard and it throws off you know the timing of the setup and punch because it’s so much, it has to be faster or whatever anyway. But we tried that with having like a contextless line and it didn’t quite work but I think coming at the top of the special it might work.
Part of watching your growth, when you were still kind of assimilating to become an American stand-up, a lot of your comedy was based on how American pop culture kind of helped raise you and assimilate you from Pakistan to here. And then watching as your star has risen, you’ve since become a part of all of these things. I think one of the first things was you went from having a podcast about The X-Files to being in The X-Files. And I have to imagine of all the things you’ve been able to accomplish, that must’ve been the weirdest because it was one of the first big things, to find yourself on a set with Mulder and Scully.
Yeah. That was super weird. In fact, it’s when I look back, and I don’t have much regrets in my career, because you give yourself grace. You learn. I watch older performances of mine and I think, that’s not quite it but that’s the best I was capable of back then. I was so nervous to do The X-Files that I wasn’t quite at my best, and that’s kind of the only work thing that I really have regrets about, which is, it’s too rigid. I was too nervous. I choked down. And the tough, really tough thing about that is… it’s a really great episode. It’s like a really genuinely great episode. And Rhys Darby is in it. And he’s phenomenal in it. It’s just like truly in my genuinely one of the best episodes of the show, I think, and I feel like when I watch it, I’m like, oh, I’m the guy who’s not quite at the level of everybody else. Like, I’m totally fine. I’m not, but I just know that I could have been better in that.
Well, how much did that help you then become better when you entered the Star Wars universe or the Ghostbusters universe?
Yeah, I mean, that’s the lesson I learned is that you have to forget that you’re doing Ghostbusters. I remember shooting Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire and I looked over and there was a cup with the Ghostbusters logo on it. And I was like, it’s getting harder and harder. And I look over and f—ing Dan Aykroyd is sitting right there. I’m like, it’s getting harder and harder to forget that I’m doing Ghostbusters right now. But I think that’s what I have gotten better at, you know, like you just have to go in and forget. And it really becomes like you wanted to feel like any other job. You have to take the pressure off. You can’t be like, oh my God, I’m doing fucking Star Wars right now. I hope I don’t fuck it up, with Obi -Wan Kenobi himself. And I’ve gotten pretty good at it….In The X-Files, I was slightly in crisis the entire time.
So what was the moment, then, when you finally did feel relaxed and comfortable, whether it was in stand-up, or one of your screen roles?
I would say the first time was really doing Eternals. Like, all through The Big Sick, I was pretty terrified. Most of Silicon Valley I was pretty terrified. Doing Eternals was the first time where I was like, OK, I’m totally relaxed. I’m really just having fun. It changed the way I worked. Once I did that movie — and I went into that movie being like, I have to have this attitude otherwise I’m going to freak out. Going into it with that attitude and enjoying the process so much, I realized, oh, this is how it needs to be every time. So that’s when it completely shifted my relationship to my work.
In The Big Sick, was that pressure all internalized because it was such a personal project for both you and Emily, and because you were playing yourself?
Yeah. It was such a personal project for me and Emily. If I f—ed this up, nobody else is going to tell this story. We’re the only ones who have this story. It’s also the first time I was the lead of anything. It was the first time I’d done any scenes with any kind of emotional content. I knew all these people had taken a shot on me, like FilmNation who financed the movie had taken a shot on me, Judd Apatow had decided to give me a shot, so I just knew that there were a lot of people who had trusted me to be able to do this. And I was doing a lot of things for the first time. And so, yeah, I put a lot of pressure on myself. I actually had, I don’t know if I’ve talked about this publicly, while we were shooting the final scene, I had a true genuine meltdown. This was at Union Hall, which is a venue I’m sure you’re very familiar with we’re shooting the last scene of the movie, which is I’m onstage and Zoe (Kazan) is playing Emily is in the audience, and actual Emily is also sitting in the back. It’s supposed to be just a very light scene. To stage right, there’s a little area where comedians hang out that’s covered by a curtain. I was there, and I was like, if I f— up this scene the whole movie doesn’t work. If I f— up this scene, everything falls apart. Don’t f— up this scene. And I remember I just wasn’t ready to get onstage. And then Barry, the producer Barry Mendel, who is incredible, came in and was like, “What’s going on?” And I was just freaking out. And he came and he sent, Emily. And Emily says she walked in, and I was just like, had my face right in an oscillating like table fan, just like staring at the fan. And she’s like, oh, no, we’re in trouble. And she like got me to like go up and do it. And then I did it. And I did not feel good about that scene, at all. And I watch it, and even I can’t tell. I’m like, oh, that totally worked out. It was a miserable experience for me, completely on myself, but the scene actually really really really came together really well, and I was terrified for it. So yeah. Lot of pressure that truly I put on myself. If that movie didn’t work, Judd would still be fine. But I was like, oh my God, I can’t let Judd down.
Speaking of meltdowns, how do you feel driving down Sunset Boulevard no longer seeing Meltdown Comics, which was a pivotal place and time for you and Emily producing comedy shows (Nerdmelt) in the back room and eventually The Meltdown with Jonah and Kumail for Comedy Central?
It was actually horrible. We just drove by it like two or three days ago, so it’s very recent. It’s amazing that you ask that. It’s become like a high-rise and I could only tell where it was by the restaurant that was across the street. I was like, oh, that was Meltdown. You know what’s weird? When I started doing stand-up again at the end of 2023 so many young comedians would be like, “You know I used to watch Meltdown on TV and that’s one of the reasons i wanted to become a comedian” and it’s weird when you go from like, you know, the cool new comedian to a couple of generations above that. You know, you bring up New York. I remember being in New York and being one of the cool young comedians, you know, and when I would do a show with Patton Oswalt being, “Oh my God, it means so much to me! You’re one of the reasons I became a comedian.” And then now, to be one of the people that you know, is like — I’m not comparing myself to Patton Oswald at all. He’s a f—ing legend. But just like, oh, people who are in high school watched me and are now doing very well in their careers.
Well, it has been a couple decades.
Yeah. Don’t say it like that!
To bring this all home, how much did the experience of making Welcome to Chippendales make it easier for you to go with Hulu for your stand-up?
That was a big factor in the decision. I’m actually doing a small part in another show of theirs that, it’ll get announced soon. It was the same executives who did Welcome To Chippendales who did this show. They were such good partners for us last time, but this, it was. They were trying something new. When I agreed to go with them it was before any of their specials had come out so they had the first 12 lined up before any of them came out, so it was a bit of a gamble. But I was like, I like working with these people and I know that they like the hour I’m doing. Because they came to watch me when I first did it at the UCB ever. Now it’s been a year and a half. The first time I did it on its own, they came to watch. I was like, OK, they really really are very passionate about this, and for me, it was a pretty easy decision.
So with this special out in the world now, are you ready to start writing more new stand-up?
It’s interesting, really. A few weeks ago, because I haven’t really done it since then. I’ve been doing other stuff, and I recoded this in March. I haven’t really been doing it. So I hit up Flanny (owner Mark Flanagan) at Largo. I went by a couple of times, I tried a couple of things. And then I was like, I’m not quite ready yet because there are other things that I’m writing that I’m hoping to make next year that are sort of more the things that are at the forefront of my mind. So I want to keep stand-up afloat. I don’t want it to be another 10 years before I do it again. I want to keep doing sets here and there….But it’s not like the way it was. When I decided I wanted to do a special, which was probably just a month and a half into doing stand-up again, I was like, this was the main project now until I can get an hour that I like. I was going up four or five times every single week. The goal was to get enough material that I can tour with, and not feel like people are being cheated out of the ticket price. And then over the course of the tour, sharpen that hour to a point where I could get it on TV. And so it’s not like that. I don’t know when it’s going to be like that again. But I do want to keep doing it, I want to keep going at it, because I really loved doing the special.
And it certainly doesn’t hurt when they invite you to big award ceremonies.
It feels pretty good! I’ve never been to the Golden Globes. I’ve never been nominated for a Globe before, so I’m very excited to go for the first time.
From everything I’ve heard, it’s so much different from the Oscars, which I know you do have experience with.
I’ve been to the Oscars and the Emmys, and Golden Gloves is apparently much more of a party, which, you know, I’m excited to see what that is.
And speaking of time and distance from being one of the cool kids, Nikki Glaser’s hosting, so it’s got to be even more of a time warp back to New York circa 2007.
Yeah, yeah! I mean, you know, it’s so interesting to see someone like that completely explode. Like, I see comedians who are newer like Stavros (Halkias) or Gianmarco (Soresi), where I’m like, yeah, they’re becoming known for the first time. But Nikki’s been doing it about as long as I have been doing it, and to have her have this moment now, it’s really really fun to watch because she has been hilarious forever. Obviously. She’s like so good. So to see her have it now because, I mean, before this we would have been like Nikki Glaser’s a very successful comedian. She does specials, she’s very successful, but then now she’s at like another level above that so that’s been very fun to see. I mean, she’s such a lovely person, too.
Kumail Nanjiani: Night Thoughts is available to stream now on Disney+ and Hulu.
You can hear Kumail Nanjiani’s full interview where he talks more about his early comedy days and nights in New York City in an upcoming episode of Sean L. McCarthy’s podcast with comedians: The Comic’s Comic Presents Last Things First.
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